Plato, Socrates, and the Dialogues
by Donald E. Hester
on Jan 07
in Lecture Reviews
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Donald E. Hester
Husband, father, and adventurer. A computer science instructor who dabbles in t
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I listened to a series of lectures titled "Plato, Socrates, and the Dialogues" which was given by Professor Michael Surgrue of Princeton University. There are 16 lectures, each lasting 45 minutes.
I am not going to outline what the course covered; I will just give my impressions of it.
Socrates' idea of the forms is a theory that, basically, says the imperfect is here in what we would call Space-Time and the true forms are somewhere else and perfect. This is similar at this high level as the fall of humankind in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Similar in that perfection is not found here, in our universe, and only a shadow of truth is here. This is much like the concept that our lives here are a shadow of our true spiritual selves. Yeah it is deep. Think about that for a while.
I wonder what people who are high think about this? I bet Plato would give them a trip!
One thing you learn when you read Plato is that you don't learn the answers to your questions, or his questions, for that matter. You learn more on how to think. When you read, Plato you are forced to think and in doing so learn how to get your mind out of stale modes of thinking. This is a good thing. I know too many people who are afraid to think for themselves. They want answers from someone else or they give up reason to hang on to their assumptions or beliefs.
Sidebar:
I see this in Christians as well. They just want someone to tell them what the truth is. They call this faith, and over use the term. God gave us something that no other creature has. Reason! Our faith should be based on reason. Why would God give us reason and ask us to have blind faith? We should use our reason. God did not give us a head to use as a nice hat rack. Christians, who have blind faith and sound silly with illogical statements, give all Christians a bad name. I think people are afraid that if they have an open mind it will erode their faith. The opposite is true, at least for me.
I picked this lecture as a means to better understand the theory of natural law. Plato started the idea, but did not coin the phrase. His student, Aristotle, took the idea further to his theory of natural justice. I plan to follow the trail of thought on Natural Law up to the founding of our country. I don't know why, but, so far, it has been a rewarding journey, a trail through history with gems of knowledge along the way.
Unexpected Gem:
What is the difference between a dialectic and a sophist. Both are types of debaters, both with different motives. Socrates and I would consider a sophist to be like a used car salesmen. A sophist’s goal in a debate or argument is to win the debate. On the other hand, the goal of a dialectic is to discover truth. I have always looked at debate (argument) as a means to find the truth not the assumption of truth. This is more along the lines of Aristotle, Plato and Socrates. I understand that many people learn to debate like sophists, in other words the purpose of the debate is to win the argument, prove you are right and so on.
Dialectics will spend more time asking questions and just looking for holes in an argument. This thinking is more like the thinking of an auditor. The goal is to exhaustively examine the claims to determine if it is truth. The level of certainty of truth that is sought is a different matter.
Lawyers are great examples of sophists, they don’t seek the truth they seek to win the case, to prove innocence, even where none exists. While debating or making a point they will use tricks to make themselves and statements look more credible while at the same time attempt to do the opposite to their interlocutor. When I listen to debates and hear the tricks I know that they are not being intellectually honest; they are just trying to sell and idea to the audience.
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